Kitty: “This subject has appealed to me strongly for years. As a student, I was already closely involved in discussions on empowerment. I’m really curious about your views on diversity. Firstly, I would like to know why you said ‘yes’ to the role of Chief Diversity Officer. I think it’s brave of you. To be honest, I would have said ‘no’ myself. It’s such a complex issue and so much has already been tried in the past twenty years. In short: why you?”

Eva: “As an occupational psychologist, I’ve been researching this field for a long time now. Since I started work at TU/e, back in 2009, we’ve been researching what both women and men can do themselves to increase diversity. We have discovered that women do not progress to higher positions. They run into a wall. I find it challenging to break down that wall.”

Kitty: “But do you know what’s causing that wall?”

Eva: “That’s something that I will, of course, be trying to discover. My hypothesis is that it’s not due to the people involved, but to several other factors. It doesn’t come into play at the exact moment at which women are able to advance to professorship – the wall is erected earlier than that.”

Kitty: “But what exactly is it that women run into?”

Eva: “The necessary conditions to excel are not the same for women and men. We need managers who see that, who give one employee a refresher course (if necessary) and another a pat on the back.”

Kitty: “But is that it?”

Eva: “No, but you need a manager who recognizes and meets individual needs. In addition, earlier research has shown that women are less active in networks. Some things are still arranged in a non-transparent manner here.”

Kitty: “Yes, we pretend that things are objective, but a lot that takes place is subjective.”

Eva: “So this is one aspect of the wall, the fact that women do not have access to these networks for advancement.”

Kitty: “But do women not have access, or is it that they don’t take advantage of access? Personally, I’ve experienced as many advantages as disadvantages of being a woman.”

Eva: “More often, women devote their energy to content output, such as publications, rather than to networks as they have to make more of an effort to benefit from a network as an outsider.”

Women appear not to be such good networkers

Kitty: “But are women, with their good social skills, simply not good at networking? That’s what people think, right?”

Eva: “In the networks at stake here, where the jobs are distributed and where project groups are formed, you have to be businesslike and assertive rather than empathic and communicative. It requires different behavior. Don’t ask for anything, but make sure that the other person offers you what you want.”

Kitty: “Could you give me some concrete figures on what you intend to achieve?”

Eva: “Figures aren’t the most important thing. It’s about changing the way people think and about TU/e being a place where people like to come and continue working.”

And then: why now?

Kitty: “In recent years, the University of Twente has tried very hard to increase the number of women among the academic staff, with hardly any results. And this will not be different at other universities. I saw that female engineers began to work half-days when they had children because their friends did the same. What else can change?”

Female students often don’t believe in themselves

Eva: “I don't know if you have the same experience, but whenever I’m supervising a female student, half my time is spent boosting her confidence. She doesn’t believe in herself. She may be able to do better than a guy, but I have to tell her that it is alright to do so. I see this as both a woman and as someone with plenty of experience in this area. As well as work-related supervision, support is needed – even in this day and age – that focuses on building self-confidence.”

Kitty, nodding emphatically: “I recognize that.”

And finally: how?

Kitty: “How are you working to achieve your goals?”

Eva: “I develop training sessions for managers, and I test them. This may be job-crafting training (a way for an employee to restructure her own job to make it more meaningful, ed.) or empowerment training (teaching someone to take control of their life, ed.).”

Kitty: “But can you imagine our colleagues thinking, ‘jeez, I’ll have to take another course, what’s this one for?’ Professionals are very stubborn.”

Eva: “But nothing is being imposed. I first listen to all the departments and ask the science academics what they want. I’m here to help. The fact that the university is becoming more diverse is relevant to the managers themselves too. I’ve also allowed similar training courses to be given to medical specialists in a partnership. They are just as stubborn.”

Kitty: “Is a course like that enough?"

Eva: “No, of course not. I’m also going to study the interactions between leaders and their employees in relation to their gender.”

Kitty: “Doesn’t such research already exist?”

Eva: “No. It has been established that there are differences, but not how they come about. If we know the origin of the processes by which women do not progress in certain positions, we can come up with interventions.”

Kitty: “The position of Chief Diversity Officer is yours for four years. When will you be satisfied?”

Eva: “I’ll be satisfied when two things have changed. 1. When people feel more passionate about their work. 2. When leaders here pay more attention to individuals. Whether male or female, young or old, national or international, exact or soft sciences – all these characteristics are important.”